Posts by Cold Steel

13

Great Crowd Or Anointed...Your Choice!

by Cold Steel in

you're a jehovah's witness in good standing.

you have a choice of being one of the "great crowd" or being anointed.

your choice?

Cold Steel

Oh, c'mon. You don't have to be a JW to answer this. Just tell me what you'd prefer? Certainly the folks who are members would have discussed this, and there's bound to be some criticisms of some people partaking of the emblems. Are elders generally regarded of being of the leadership class.

9

Do JW now believe that they are not the only true religion?

by featherimiss in

hi all...it's been a while since i've visited the site.. i was speaking to a jw friend of mine last night.

and she said that they stated at the latest convention that they were not the only true religion.

is this true?.

Cold Steel

Certainly thou jestest! Your friend most likely misunderstood someone or she heard something she wanted to hear.

The book they teach from hasn't changed. The fact that they still send forth missionaries indicates they believe themselves to be the only true church.

4

"Discreet"???

by smmcroberts in

in a previous blog i showed why the gb cannot be a "slave".

in that blog i promised to review the rest of their infamous claim of being "faithful and discreet".

that blog is now ready for your consideration:.

Cold Steel

Unfortunately, “faithful and discreet slave” is a mistranslation. Playing devil’s advocate, the actual term is “faithful and wise servant.” Whether the term “faithful” can be used in connection with the Governing Body is moot. “Wise” is defined as “having wisdom or discernment for what is true, right, or lasting.” The term “discreet” is “exercising or showing prudence and wise self-restraint in speech and behavior.” And finally, a slave is “one bound in servitude as the property of a person or household,” where a “servant” is “one who is privately employed to perform domestic services.”

Now whether the Governing Body is a faithful and wise servant is something members of the Jehovah’s Witnesses must decide. But they also have to decide whether the GB is responsible for the horrendously awful translation of the scriptures.

You also quoted Revelation 22:18* to show that the translators shouldn’t have used “Jehovah” in their New Testament Greek translations. You wrote that “they did not remain faithful to the extant manuscripts.” As horrendous as the JW New World Translation is, a translation is merely to render into another language. If the GB is inspired of God, then making these changes is perfectly okay. Also, the scriptural reference to Revelation 22:18 refers only to the book of Revelation, and not to the Bible. The early Christians had an open canon. King James translators changed many references to God to “Lord.” This didn’t mean that they were adding to the scriptures, or taking away from them; nor did it mean that the translations were necessarily bad. But they are weighted to the JW doctrine where, for some insane reason, the term “Jehovah” is overly important to them. In most other faiths, Jesus is the one to whom Christians look. And the JWs believe that Jehovah is the Father of Jesus where the scriptures teach fairly clearly that Jehovah, not Michael, is the pre-existent Jesus.** If the GB is wrong about that, then that’s another doctrinal kink they have to answer for.

--------------------- * “For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book….”

** Both Jehovah and Jesus share the same titles, such as the First and the Last, Savior, Judge, etc. In fact, Jehovah will come to judge the nations, and his coming mirrors that of Christ’s. John declared that the Father judges no man, but has committed all judgment to the Son. (John 5:22) The Witnesses explain the identical titles by saying that Jesus is so much “One” with Jehovah that they can use the same titles.

13

Great Crowd Or Anointed...Your Choice!

by Cold Steel in

you're a jehovah's witness in good standing.

you have a choice of being one of the "great crowd" or being anointed.

your choice?

Cold Steel

You're a Jehovah's Witness in good standing. You have a choice of being one of the "great crowd" or being anointed. Your choice? And why?

And is being one of the anointed class something one can aspire to? In short, let's say being a member of one or the other is something you really want. You can be a physical being living on a lush, green earth...forever...or being an ethereal spirit for all eternity. If the latter, I suppose if not a choice, it's something that's revealed to you by the Holy Spirit. No one at the Kingdom Hall can dispute it or challenge it. And of course you partake of the emblems once a year.

Trouble is, you're not one of the anointed ones. You made a mistake. What happens? Let's say you really wanted to be one of the resurrected spirits. Are you punished for thinking you were one of the anointed?

I wish someone would explain the politics of being in the anointed class. When someone partakes of the emblems, is there any talking behind someone's back, open talk doubting it, etc.? And if you could be an elder for the rest of your life or being in the anointed class, what would your choice be? If you are one of the anointed, will you be able to visit loved ones on the earth by materializing a body? And what will be the duties of the anointed ones?

In fact, what will the duties of the great crowd be? What will they do forever, and will they have any super powers? Does anyone ever kick these things around the old Kingdom Hall? Chew the old Watchtower fat?

15

Calling Out Jehovah's Name

by God_Delusion in

if you're in trouble today, don't panic.

all you need to do is yell out at the top of your voice, "jehovah!".

well, that's what many jehovah's witnesses believe.

Cold Steel

Next time I'm attacked by a teddy bear, I'll be sure to scream "Jehovah!"

You might also consider sneaking up on loved ones and, grabbing them by the shoulders, yelling "Jehovah" at the top of your lungs. If they jump out of their skin, accuse them of coming in contact with a cursed or possessed object. Tell them you're going to keep doing it until they stop jumping...just to make sure they're no longer affected.

I'd like to hear more stories though. Since Jehovah isn't actually the name of God, it shouldn't affect an evil spirit at all, but hey, do what works. Jump out of a plane without a parachute, scream...well, you know.

38

SAFE WAY to awaken, VERY POWERFUL. Even called Bethel elder on it.

by EndofMysteries in

i've found this topic and subject to be extremely powerful.

this is for those who still believe in god, realize the wt is apostate, and trying to help family.

(meaning i do not wish it to be used on trying to turn people athiest, i respect everyone's choices, i just believe and would hate my help to do what i feel is wrong) it might help fix things, or if you are still wondering how to awaken them without scaring them and being instantly shunned.

Cold Steel

Fascinating eschatology.

In all my reading of the scriptures, I've never read anything that would lead me to the conclusion that there are two classes of resurrected beings, spirits and physical beings. In fact, all men will be resurrected according to the scriptures; and in the Lord's house there are many mansions, or degrees.

Since the Lord's resurrection, I see no reason why the First Resurrection isn't still continuing. But the vast majority of those resurrected will, I think, rise at the coming of Christ when he returns in the clouds of heaven to Jerusalem (which is his coming in glory) and brings the battle of Armageddon to a close.

The big question is why does it matter? The notion that Jesus was resurrected as a spirit is absurd. He went through great lengths to show his disciples that he wasn't a spirit ("for a spirit hath not flesh and bones as ye see I have"). It's important to keep in mind that flesh and blood is not the same as flesh and bones. In the former, blood is the corrupting agent. When it is replaced by spirit, it has the best qualities of both spirit and physical. This is why Jesus was able to show his disciples the wounds in his hands, side and feet, and yet go through walls and ceilings. As a resurrected being, he is able to withhold his glory and appear as a man or, when he returns, will appear in all his glory which will destroy the wicked who aren't quickened. And according to John, the resurrection of the righteous will be like Jesus' resurrection. And that is all the righteous. There is no "great crowd" or "other sheep" by way of resurrections. Most scholars believe the "other sheep" are the gentiles, while others believe they are the "lost" tribes of Israel socked away somewhere. But none that I know of believe they're a separate resurrected class.

Finally, the notion that man having a spirit is not a pagan belief. All throughout the New Testament, the apostles liken the body as a "tabernacle" for the spirit and Peter wanted to "depart" and be with Christ, but to stay with the church was more needful for it.

In 1945 the Dead Sea Scrolls and the Nag Hammadi library were discovered. The Nag Hammadi writings were collections of both Gnostic and more conventional writings, and we learn quite a bit about conventional Christianity. And it's clear that the early Christians believed that men have spirits. Also, many people of all religious backgrounds have had Near Death Expieriences that indicate not only do we have spirits that continue on after death, but that our spirits existed before we came to the Earth. Some accounts I've read of people who died in accidents or on the operating table describe meeting people they knew before coming to the Earth.

If people live after they die, they exist as spirits, which mean they're not resurrected as spirits. They're resurrected in the same manner as Christ, which are physical resurrections with spirit instead of blood. Thus, the Father is spirit. It doesn't say he is a spirit. That was added. In the book of Hebrews, it reads of Christ: " Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high: Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they." Further, Jesus was "appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds." (H ebrews 1:1-4) This is one of the most succinct scriptures in the New Testament. In essence, Christ is resurrected to be exactly like his Father gaining, by inheritance, all that the Father has.

Paul, in his epistle to the Romans, writes that " For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. ... The [Holy] Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together. Thus, if Jesus becomes equal with the Father because he's an heir, and we too are heirs of the Father and "joint heirs with Christ," what does that mean for us? It means we inherit all that the Father has? So would you rather be a part of the "great crowd" and live on a garden planet for trillions of years, or would you rather be a "joint heir" with Christ and inherit all that he inerits?

This would be an interesting question to ask the guy at Bethel. After all, if we are the children of God we are heirs, and if heirs, then joint heirs with Christ. It doesn't say that only the "other sheep" can be children of God, does it? In fact, you can be a joint heir just by claiming it. There is no great crowd and there is no other sheep categories. Why? Because all the righteous can claim to be the children of God and become joint heirs with Christ, regardless of what resurrection category they think they're part of. Why would anyone choose to become part of the great crowd and spend the rest of eternity tending gardens and having family reunions? Wouldn't most normal people choose to be heirs with Christ and the Father, inheriting all that the Father has?

3

Too young to get baptized?

by aposta-Z in

ok she appears to have some disability.

she has trouble getting in the kiddie pool.

she might be smaller because of that.

Cold Steel

Don't they have fonts in KINGDOM HALLS? I can't believe they would baptize someone in that getup!

Do they usually dunk three times or were the first two times a miss?

114

The Bible-- Full of Errors And Inconsistencies?

by Recovery in

i noticed in the "magic" thread many former jw's no longer adhere to the bible as the unerring and accurate word of god.

if you feel this way, can you please list any specific reasons/arguments as to why not.

this thread isn't for debating purposes, but simply for listing.

Cold Steel

There are numerous inconsistencies; however, I still believe it to be the word of God.

John says that no man has seen God at any time, yet the Old Testament tells us that Moses spoke with God face to face, and that seventy elders of Israel (with Joshua and a few others) saw God for an extended time...during a meal. Other prophets also claimed to see God. In fact, I don't think the Jewish or Christian religions would be worth a damn had no one seen God.

The inconsitencies aren't severe enough to queer the scriptures in my view, but no writing in which man had a part can be perfect.

25

Is Jehovah (GOD ) an intelligent being ? Or an incompetent

by smiddy in

according to the bible he communicated quite freely with humans, via dreams ,angels ,prophets ,etc.etc., in ancient times ,even up to, two thousand years ago , then he fell silent.then whatever, he was supposed to have said, has been manipulated , ( mis ) interpretrated ,twisted ,whatever, by imperfect human beings ,supposedly speaking in his name .during this last 2000 years.we now live in a time of unprecedented information technology , isn`t this the time to speak to the people of all the earth ?

using such technology ?

their has never been a time on earth when their have been so many people living at the one time and the means to communicate with all of them in a 24 hour period .

Cold Steel

How do you know God hasn’t revealed himself? And why do you suppose the people of the Earth would accept it? Also, why do you think that if he could reveal himself in the heavens, that he doesn’t?

According to the scriptures, the Lord will eventually reveal himself, but he’ll do it following an extended tribulation. The reason God doesn’t reveal himself in the heavens is because we’re still in a state of probation. The Lord tends to provide man with evidence of his dealings with mankind, but not proof. The reason he doesn’t provide proof is because man would condemn himself if he were provided proof and did not act on it. In short, there are people who would not repent and turn their lives around even if they had proof of his existence, and they would be under utter condemnation if that happened. God leaves evidence for man but not proof to spare those who otherwise would be under condemnation. It also would rob man of his free agency to see God revealed in his glory. He was willing to do it with the children of Israel, when he showed himself to 70 elders of Israel plus Joshua and a few others; however, had they subsequently rejected him, their condemnation would have been severe. There have, in fact, been cases in our day when God has reportedly revealed to man absolute proof of his existence, and there were witnesses, but they were made to understand the consequences should they ever deny their testimonies.

God is the same yesterday, today and forever, and he does not change the way he deals with man. But it often requires that man search for him.

I believe God has revealed himself in our day just as he did anciently. (If you want to know more, PM me.) But as for the Jehovah’s Witnesses, General Board members believe they have inspiration...but not revelations. But what’s the difference? They either are led by the Holy Spirit or they aren’t. Anciently, the church received guidance to vacate Jerusalem just before the Romans got there; and they received revelation on where to send missionaries throughout Asia and Greece/Rome. Their doctrines are indicative that they don’t receive assistance in formulating either their eschatology or their exegesis. Members don’t seem to have a limit in how much they’ll tolerate and even after numerous predictions regarding the end of the world, they tend to remain in the church.

25

Is Jehovah (GOD ) an intelligent being ? Or an incompetent

by smiddy in

according to the bible he communicated quite freely with humans, via dreams ,angels ,prophets ,etc.etc., in ancient times ,even up to, two thousand years ago , then he fell silent.then whatever, he was supposed to have said, has been manipulated , ( mis ) interpretrated ,twisted ,whatever, by imperfect human beings ,supposedly speaking in his name .during this last 2000 years.we now live in a time of unprecedented information technology , isn`t this the time to speak to the people of all the earth ?

using such technology ?

their has never been a time on earth when their have been so many people living at the one time and the means to communicate with all of them in a 24 hour period .

Cold Steel

This is a question that plagued me back during my high school years ago. I searched all kinds of churches looking for one that could answer it. That's when I first checked out the JWs...and they didn't fit the criteria in any way. In fact, there's only one that did and now, 40 years later, there's still only one that I can find, anyway.

The Catholic church has long sought for a way to reestablish communications with God, but has been stymied, as have other faiths. When the New World was discovered, many Protestant denominations fled here for religious freedom. After the American Revolution, they battled each other for converts placing faith on the fear of God and eternal damnation to support their various doctrines and dogmas. Instead of relying on Christ for authority as did the early Christians, they relied on the Bible. In 1945, with the discovery of the Nag Hammadi library, an ancient Christian library consisting of 52 books (many of whom were Gnostic). Even so, many quotations from the apocryphal Gospel of Thomas have been deemed to be authentic sayings of Jesus. One of these sayings includes this well known parable:

Jesus said: The kingdom of the Father is like a woman carrying a jar full of meal. While she was walking on a distant road, the handle of the jar broke and the meal poured out behind her on the road. She was unaware, she had not noticed the misfortune. When she came to her house, she put the jar down and found it empty.

As in other parables, the Kingdom of God is likened to a woman; and in this one the Kingdom’s contents were the spiritual gifts that defined the church Jesus created. After Christ’s death, the Kingdom fell into apostasy as prophesied (2 Thessalonians 2:1-3). By the time Rome seized control of the church, the spiritual gifts had been lost. There were no more healings, no more raising of the dead, no more visions, angels, revelation and baptism had changed.

But one reason I believe God to be real and to have spoken anciently is the profound and consistent messages that are delivered. From the law of Moses down to the Gospel taught by Christ, the scriptures, prophecy and teachings of the prophets not only are profound, but life changing. Christianity, as taught by the Master, completely eclipses Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism and the other “isms” of the world, including the religious teachings of great civilizations such as the Aztecs, Mayans and Peruvians.

But why in our day, when we need Him most, does the great God of Heaven hide? When the Lord God will do nothing save He reveal it unto His servants the prophets are there no prophets? Jesus warned that there would be false prophets, but he never actually said there would be no prophets. But if He were to raise prophets in our day, where would He raise them? If a prophet knocked on the doors of Bethel or appeared before the Western Baptist Convention, what kind of reception would they get? Or if an apostle knocked on the doors of the National Council of Churches, what weight would his words carry?

Churches have hierarchies and creeds, and they cannot be easily cracked by outside claims. In fact, anyone claiming to be a prophet in today’s society would immediately be branded a kook. If I, now, here, claimed to be a prophet or apostle? What credence would I have? None. And what would a prophet have to do, today, for YOU to believe his or her claims?

That’s the problem, see? In the end, it’s easier to have an established dogma, with creeds, than to have new prophets. Yet in Revelation 11, we’re told that two prophets will be called to minister to the Jews in Jerusalem in the last days; so it’s hard to argue that no prophets will be called in our day. These two could be two ancient prophets like Enoch and Elijah—or they could be new prophets. But to say no prophets will arise appears to be unscriptural.